Jigsaw
Member
Inevitability
Posts: 643
|
Post by Jigsaw on Apr 25, 2003 10:13:51 GMT
Hello again Zero, as i was one of your two opponents in this year cwt i take all those words you wrote as it was adressed to me(correct me if im wrong).
I actually wonder what scheme is normal in your opinion, thats probably scheme that you always play and even little difrence makes it not normal? When we played our cwt game i only wanted manual worms placement and no select worms, rest was up to you, we played having 8 worms each and i never played more than 5-6. That made me bit confused as i only had 5 ropes which i used too quickly. Belive me or not but imo theres no such thing as good player at everything, everyone plays what hes likes most i like elite and intermediate without select worms and manual placement (aka i2). As we dont have one and only scheme to play, everyone tries to play scheme possibly similar to what he likes.
You also wrote about terrain, that some1 kept asking you to change map, well who might that be... We played all games on random map (i had to pick single digit) in last round i asked if we could have open map, you said no we play random and so we played, cave with roof and floor only. As Penguin alredy said, its good to have map with lot of terrain especially when we played with 8 worms each.
I never said bad word about you and your skills and i really belive that you and everyone else could win against Xaos, but, as Voodoo said: "Its tourney game that counts" Its like when you play 10 games against someone and you win 5 and loose 5, who is better then?
So if you dont want to play in this tournament just dont. I dont think about myself as im best player in the world, in my (and not only my) opinion im skilled, and i always like to play with skilled people. I found such players in cwt, its pleasure to play against them and i really enjoy it. And i gonna play in every following tounament organized by Crespo.
|
|
|
Post by zero on Apr 25, 2003 12:02:55 GMT
Hello Yet Again,
I would like to take a moment to point out that my very first post in this thread was meant to be a very blunt constructive criticism of this tournament and a lot of the competitors within it. However, because my post was not a positive reflection of this tournament, it seems that all of you have taken it upon yourselves to attack me and send false accusations my way. I've been accused of hosting my weeknight GameMasters games by the settings I supposedly always play by, even though it is a well-known fact that my settings are always chosen at random. I've been accused of being a sore loser, even though I haven't accused anyone of cheating. I have even had Simon attempt to drag the people from the GameMasters Message Board into this quarrel (even though he claims his post was a friendly one, he has never posted on my board until this incident).
I whole-heartedly believe every word in my original post. I am not the only one. A few people who silently agree with me have taken the time to inform me of such, and I thank them for their support even though I didn't openly request it, and even though they've not posted. Though it seems I am not the only individual that dislikes this tournament, the fact remains that all of you are now completely flaming me for making a post that you all disagree with. I will openly admit that a great percentage of my posts after the original one contained a lot of rude comments. For this I apologize (truthfully). However, I do not apologize for my first post or the points that I made within it. I have stated my opinions firmly and I have the right to stand by them.
The simple fact of the matter is that many of you are good wormers. However, I don't believe that any of you are great wormers (save a select few). I sure as hell don't believe that you are the world's best wormers, as Crespo has claimed. I don't believe I'm the world's best wormer either, but I do know that I entered this tournament with high expectations, hoping that it would redeem the sluggish speed and poor quality of last year's tournament. I played my group stages like the rest of you, and after being eliminated, I felt this was a good time to come here and state my dislike for the tournament settings (and a few of it's competitors) publicly and with intentional criticism. However, instead of perceiving my original post in this manner, you've all gotten extremely defensive, very mean, and quite ignorant in regard to anything I take the time to say. Though I have been quite disrespectful in regard to decency in this forum (which I again apologize for without hiding), none of you are innocent of this issue either. You may all dislike me for the comments I've posted, but the truth, whether you prefer to accept it or not, is that you've all been just as rude as myself. Defending your tournament from extreme criticism does not give you the right to massively attack the critic. I came here with criticism, you replied with anger with rudeness, and I rebuttled with the same. You've only made my impression of this tournament worse.
I may be stubborn and I may be over-aggressive, but one thing I am not is stupid. This will be my last post here, because I am simply not dumb enough to remain here where everyone is completely blind to my original point. I could try to reason with you guys all day, but you are hellbent on simply flaming me. Why would I stick around here and put up with it? The answer is simple: I won't. Though I am certain that there are still a great many of you who will reply to this post with snappy comments and mean remarks, please rest assured that I won't be reading them. Me not returning to this tournament (or this message board) is your wish, and you shall have it.
A few of you have stated that after I leave, I won't be missed. I assure you, now that I am leaving, I won't be missing you much either.
-- GameMaster Zero
|
|
|
Post by MrTPenguin on Apr 25, 2003 14:37:16 GMT
I don't believe for one moment that you're never going to return to this forum - your curiosity will get the better of you.
I'm still waiting for a point-by-point response to my original post...
|
|
Crespo
Member
CWT founder
Posts: 758
|
Post by Crespo on Apr 25, 2003 16:55:38 GMT
The time has come to make my formal reply to the infamous post that yesterday has invaded our Message Board. When I read the so-called "post" I got stunned away with the amount of bullshit there. I mean, I already knew that "the man" himself disagreed with me about how I hosted the tournament, but I never suspected his frustration was such to make a post like this! This was an attack on me, who have stupidly talked so highly of "the man" since the past year's tournament. A perfect cybernetic stabb-in-the-back... I believe his second loss and my most recent post in his Message Board, which was telling the so-called "Gamemasters" how did our tournament evolved and got enhanced this year, were the two decisive factors for achieving the "breaking point". As I was reading the post I even got to a point where I was to laugh at some things "the man" was saying. In fact, if you have an accurate irony sense, you might even get a few laughs here: So let's start analyzing: First: "There are plenty of people, including Spike, Makimura, and myself, who regret entering this tournament..." if anyone regreted entering the tournament please quit while you can. I don't want no one here against it's own will. But wait! I've heard a "GameMaster" doesn't quit a tournament... Uuuuhh... But what's a GameMaster anyway? A supreme and transcendental gamer who sits is ass in front of the computer all day and plays until he beats every game he can find, sometimes being awake until 5 or 6 am, giving up only when his cerebrate asks for rest and waking in the next day around 4 or 5 pm? Well, that's decadence for me, not "Gamemaster"ing... I talked to "the man" since a long time; there was a time once, when I was a apart of his personal mailing list and I received a weekly mail by "the man" telling how was his week. From those mails and from our chats I never knew what does "the man" do for living... Hope you have a life beyond that GameMaster thing... I do. Second (about your beloved Wormpot modes): Have you imagined that most of the Wormpot modes make the luck factor to be the decisive factor on the outcome of the game? Just think: a crate shower mode, right? this beginner is your oponnent, he gets an armageddon, ropes out to safety and wins you on the first turn. You call that fair? "So, we've got a host who doesn't understand the concept of fairness..." This one really made me laugh, man. We rather want to play a match of Worms on which you decide your team's faith. Of course, Wormpot modes are incredibly fun (I am a big fan of Specialist mode) and we sometimes select some in our friendly matches. But there not for tournament play. And you actually MAY PLAY with the modes; so why didn't you asked your oponnents to play with the modes on? AND BY THE FUCKIN' WAY why didn't you showed your thoughts about the wormpot modes earlier in the board so that the comunity should discuss about that? That's why we've added the Board. To improve the competition. I just don't understand this: you and the unknown wormers who support you thought there were some things wrong with the tournament SO WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU TELL US NOTHING ABOUT IT? BEING SO, YOU WOULDN'T BE CRYING NOW CUZ' THAT WOULD BE A SOLVED PROBLEM. WHERE'S YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH? I DON'T BITE NO ONE FOR SPEAKING! BUT NO, YOU JUST HAD TO WAIT UNTIL YOU HAD A REASON TO CRY AFTER BEING PUSHED AWAY FROM THE SECOND ROUND CUZ' I KNOW IF YOU WERE IN THE SECOND ROUND YOU WOULDN'T BE POSTING THIS CRAP. A (big) part of you just doesn't like to loose... We all have a bad looser part in us, but when we loose we congratulate the winner and move on, cuz' this is just a game and the reason why i made this was to gather some of the best normal wormers around cuz' whenever you find yourself in WORMnet 2 most of ppl you find are shoppa asses. it s not the winning that matters, but establish a great comunity of wormers. Whenever we find the other competitors in WORMNET we know that we will face a good match, even if you are much better or much worse than your oponnent. Third: "For the record, I have nothing against Xaositect, but the fact that I was able to defeat him not long ago in a game where I was terribly disadvantaged due to a busted keyboard tells me that this tournament isn't doing a good job of deciding who the best wormer is. I personally believe that I am capable of beating most of you in a random match. I also believe that Kortren could do the same. I believe Spike could do the same." No one is unbeatable! We all get terribly beat up once in a while, but each time we get beat up we have our friendship link to be made stronger cuz' for each game we make we feel that something is being constructed here. And I will for sure shake the hand of some other wormer personally. For the record, I wouldn't shake yours. Now, about Kortren and Spike: they are awesome buddys. And although they would feel handicaped while competing against some wormers in the tournament, let me assure you that they are welcome and have the sympathy of all of us. And while playing with us, they are learning. kortren himslef once mailed me with a message saying that he had much fun playing its games and that he learned from his mistakes that couldn't allowed him to win his games. You know, that's the spirit here. They don't loose our respect for having lost their games; maybe you think that way but we don't. Fourth: It's not like me to be upset over the way a tournament is being held, but the plain and simple fact is that my name is being connected to this tournament, and I am ashamed of it. poor baby... cry a bit more, please... we can't hear you. Fifth: "I will not be returning to this tournament next year, and I am aware of many others who also won't be returning. I just happen to be the only person with the courage to speak up and post his thoughts on the subject." What a shame then... For those who are known as "many others" wether you express yourselves or you leave, cuz' as I said I won't be hosting a tournament for ppl who are playing against their own will. I just happen to be the only person with the courage to speak up what courage? if you had such thing you would express yourself before the games were to start on the Board, so that we discussed your points of view amongst us. Sixth: "Crespo has gone as far as to not only play a game by his own personal settings, but to host an entire tournament this way." The point where you state I have advantage over the others it's just the maximum amount shit there is in your post. Just for the record i have about one game of Worms per week, so you see where is my advantage over the others... While everyone practices much more than that I don't get to sit my shiny ass in front the computer, with a large and stable internet connection, palying 3 or 5 rounders cuz' I just don't the money to it. I'm not a rich person. But once i get my course done, and a job found, I will have better ocnditions to play. Meanwhile, while everybody's pratising i'm thinking "boy how would I like to playing now..." When some of the wormers invites me for a game I have to say: "I can't" CUZ' I JUST CAN'T. so that advantage you say I have over the others, you should stick it somewhere I know! Finaly, a few words: If you have the power to (i m sure you have, you're a supreme GameMaster ), please erase me from your board. I won't be connected to anything hosted by you. Crespo logging off the Zero
|
|
|
Post by nouser on Apr 25, 2003 21:59:02 GMT
That's the most eloquently put argument i've seen in a while.
He's just a bad loser, really. A "game-master" should surely realize that different people enjoy different styles of play, and that his "random" rules aren't a generally accepted scheme over the whole community.
Why can't i believe that he won't be back? He'll be looking, at least.
|
|
|
Post by MrTPenguin on Apr 25, 2003 22:05:19 GMT
Very well replied, Crespo.
The Zero saga is drawing to its close; he has failed in his mission to bring this tournament into disrepute. The two wormers whom he indirectly claims are his allies - Spike and Kortren - are both out, and Makimura has gone too. The noble fellowship of CWT was tested, and it passed convincingly: the tournament continues...
|
|
Simon
Member
kaaskop
Posts: 103
|
Post by Simon on Apr 26, 2003 8:30:08 GMT
[glow=green,5,0]I thought I would pop back to read a bit more of Zero's GM board and would you believe it, he has actually banned me from viewing it! You really can't do anything but pity this guy. If anyone else is interested in having a look, here is the address: pub182.ezboard.com/bgamemasters71813 You will notice that it's a similar 'free' board system like ours, which take about 30 minutes to set up from start to finish.. maybe a hour at the most. The reason I’m saying this is just to show you that Zero is talking a load of old bollocks from the very first line of his attack. Si [/glow] [glow=green,5,0]EDIT: I seen to have confused his post here with one he made on his own board saying that he was spending a lot of time in making his board look good. Sorry if you read this and had no idea what I was on about [/glow]
|
|
|
Post by nouser on Apr 26, 2003 12:24:40 GMT
He banned you? Heh, hardly surprising. He clearly hates anyone disagreeing with him.
He seems to be the "dictator" in his community, never mind crespo in ours!
|
|
HHC
Member
HereHeComes
Posts: 80
|
Post by HHC on Apr 26, 2003 17:50:18 GMT
I hope none of you minds me posting a reply too First off I'd like to warn you guys for anything I may say in this post that may be offending to you. I always try to give my opinion from a neutral point of view even if that means disappointing a friend...I hope none of you takes anything i say as a personal offence. I may hurt someone's feelings but i'm convinced that sharing my own opinion is better than lieing about things in order not to hurt anyone. The reason why I joined this tournament was because it was so similar to those I used to play in a very long time ago. No complicated php databases, no complicated rules and players i never played before, just a nice little tournament with a friendly atmosphere and an ambitious tourney captain. Those of you who know me well (konrad, jig?) know that I have been playing a long time and for numerous tournaments and leagues. I have also organised some myself and helped others organising them. From this experience i have learned the following things: 1. The people who create the tournaments are the ones showing initiatives and in my opinion that gives them the freedom to organise things the way they want them to be. 2. Crespo's tournament has only a very limited number of rules which is a good thing, because it indicates people are able to compete in a fair way and do not strive to abuse the lack of rules to make up ones themselves. 3. It was perhaps wrong of Crespo to say that his tournament only featured the best wormers around. I partly agree with Zero on that one, but i must remind him that it's really really hard to select the best wormers and even then people will disagree with the ones being chosen. Crespo's done a good job in making it a requirement for newcomers to master the game to a certain extent that they may be called Pro's. 4. I think this tournament is held in a nice way and that there isn't anything wrong with the scheme. I can imagine you may be frustrated by people who insist on playing their favourite scheme, but you basically did the same by insisting the game would be played on a random map with wormpot modes enabled. 5. Choosing random wormpot modes in a game is a questionable idea, it may make the game more complicated and thus harder to play, but it disturbs the balance of gametypes that were carefully constructed by team17 to provide players with an attractive game to play. 6. In any competition luck and coincidence come into play. And that's a great thing, otherwise their would be no point playing because the result would be known before any games were even played. To conclude, i think Crespo is doing a great job and i have not participated in any tournaments or leagues where the ammount of rude behaviour was at such a low level. A few days ago Crespo said I was not enough engaged with this community. And I suppose he was right. I am currently playing worms for 3 or 4 different leagues and tournaments. I do not have the time and energy to participate at a high level in all these leagues, so I must make sacrifices and divide my time. I hope none of you minds. Kissies!!!
|
|
|
Post by UncleDave on Apr 26, 2003 21:35:57 GMT
The thing is, Zero, you've lost the plot. This isn't about rankings, or who wins, its about finding like-minded people to play against. I dont honestly know why you talk feverishly about the best and the greatest wormer and your private tournaments, but to be honest, nobody really cares... I haven't been here long, Crespo is a nice bloke and his doing his best to organise a few games to keep us all away from mind-rotting shoppas, and isnt doing badly to be fair I dont think having two, three, or even four different tournaments running at the same time is necessarily bad... gives us more games, after all... and since there are many people here who dont play games on time for one reason or another, it doesnt matter whether it's 6 days or months, there will always be those who dont play. So what we need in CWT are MORE GAMES, and less of this standardisation Zero talks about with preset WormPOT and terrain. Rules? Quit with the rules. Play Normal style how you want it played and to hell with rules. Thats the only rule we need and have... Normal style, agreed settings and it should stay that way. So there
|
|
|
Post by nouser on Apr 26, 2003 21:56:15 GMT
If Zero doesn't like rules and "dictatorship" in tourneys, why is he so obsessed with fixed preset wormpot modes and such? His argument caontradicts itself there.
|
|
Crespo
Member
CWT founder
Posts: 758
|
Post by Crespo on May 9, 2003 11:47:46 GMT
I'm posting the final conclusion on this now quiet conversation: I would like to thank all of those who supported me and the tournament when faced against Zero's critique. Although we have freedom of speech here, the things he said were terribly wrong, and I won't talk about that anymore cuz' my points of view are already here in my formal reply to the initial Zero post, but I would like to enhance and gratefully thank your support on this. When I first read his post I got very upset just thinking he would drive some of you out of CWT. But you guys knew how to deal with him. A HUGE THANK YOU! Day after day as I was reading your reply posts I was beginning to get the feeling that the outcome of this could only be positive. Here are some of the sentences that I most enjoy re-reading when I enter this thread: To start the last paragraph I'll write here in this thread I'll begin and end with a few words by MrTPlatypus : Regarding all of these persons here's what I did and what I will do: As for Zero himself, right after I posted my reply to his post in the Board I told him on Messenger: "I've posted my reply to your post. ¶ In a few seconds I will block you and I won't speak to you again." Meanwhile he said: "Can I ask you a question?" I waited a few seconds but he remained silent and, as promised, I blocked him. Now, I only lament for the fact that, with this, I've lost a friend on who I had much consideration for. As for Spike and Kortren, I mailed them asking about their thoughts and wills right after the "Zero issue" was released. I haven't received any kind of reply from Spike (I will presume he will be with Zero on this until I receive any reply from him) but I received a reply from Kortren who said to me that he actually believes in the tournament, it's settings and fairness of it's competitors, meaning that he disagreed with some of Zero's points. He will gladdly stick around for future competitions; in fact, he has his last group stage game against tixas tomorrow at 21:00 GMT. As for "Mom Zero", Makimura, I asked UrbanSpaceman if he wouldn't mind to have their game to be removed from the record, he said "I don't mind", being so, I didn't wait any longer and logged in the polish Darasek, who surprised me positively with boosting Group H by making his 3 games right away. So CWT has lost "Mom Zero" and gained an extremely competent wormer. Can anyone blame me on this? I will lock this thread on next Sunday. Period.
|
|