Johnmir
Member
Karate Kid
Love normal!:D
Posts: 273
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Post by Johnmir on Jun 22, 2005 20:15:26 GMT
Last time it seems that CWT is sleeping, let's talk to each other about some interesting things. Everybody has his own interests in worms, and his own problems with playing (i have a lot ). I want to hear opinions of our good skilled and inteligent people-wormers: What do you think about luck in worms's positions (at start of a round)? Before telling your opinion please answer the following questions: 1. Do you say about your unlucky positions always when you think so? 2. Do you say about opponent's unlucky positions sometimes when you think so? 3. Do you prefer to keep silence about your unlucky positions or you would like to say it immediatly. 4. Can you say about your unlucky positions to each player or not to each? (example : I can't say about unlucky positions to Bytor cause he never says it himself). 5. How important positions in a round for you and your playing in this round. 6. Is saying or thinking about bad positions helps you to find a little reason of losing to your opponent? 7. What emotions do you receive when opponent says to you ‘I had unlucky positions’ : something unpleasant or you feel sorry? 8. Situation : you have played first round in your game and it was your first turn ( official game for example). Are you afraid of your next round’s positions? 9. Do you feel sorry after winning ‘cause of’ bad positions of your opponent, or sometimes yes and sometimes no? 10. After analyzing your own answers try to say : what do you think after your game about first of all: your playing, his and your positions, opponents playing? There is some hard questions ( hard for me at least ) and I hope you will be fair doing this little test ( or something like test ). Mega sorry for my English . My answers: 1. Never says. 2. Sometimes, it depends on opponents behavior + opponents playing during the game. 3. Keep silence. 4. Usually I want to say it to player who would say it to me and to player who doesn’t want to confirm the fact of my bad positions. 5. Try to concentrate and do as good turn as my opponent did. If it was not successful I can become much weaker. 6. Yes, it is. 7. Hard to say, rather unpleasant but sometimes I feel sorry + I have unpleasant feelings. 8. Never afraid when I know I can beat my opponent and it won’t be very hard, but I’m really afraid of it when I play with really strong player. 9. If my opponent was good - yes. 10. My playing, my opponent’s playing, mine and his positions if it wasn’t ‘fair’. After we answered these questions I hope we will see some interesting facts and we will talk about that, but now let’s wait for answers.
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Post by MrTPenguin on Jun 22, 2005 22:26:30 GMT
I like the term "people-wormers" - I'm not aware of any of any other animals playing the game Here are my answers: 1-4. If there is a large number of worms in easy-to-kill or generally-bad positions, then I usually mention it, irrespective of whose worms they are. There would have to be more than 2 worms on both teams in easy-to-kill positions for me to mention it. 5. I personally don't mind having a few bad positions, because a comeback is often possible (unless the map is very open). Also, it doesn't happen very often, and let's face it, it's nice when your opponent has some ;D 6. I don't think I've ever lost a best-of-three game in my life [shall I end the sentence here? j/k] due to bad placements. Of the rounds that I've lost, some of them were made difficult for me by placements, but there were often mistakes in them too by me. 7. When someone complains to me about placements, my feelings are either: "yes, good point" or "yeah yeah, any old excuse". The one I choose depends on the map and the player. 8. If I'm one round away from losing, and I know that my opponent is going first in the next round, then I do get a bit worried. 9. If I win a round in which I did one or more "big kills" early on, I don't feel too proud of myself (although I'm pleased with myself for the rest of the round ) 10. To be honest with you, I don't really think about positions. I do, however, think a lot about the forms of myself and my opponent(s). My opinion is that 1-5 worm games should have self-placement, and 6-8 worm games should have random placement. I've played both types of game with both types of placement, and my conclusions are: A significant number of the rounds in a 1-5 worm game with random placement are effectively decided by the placement, as a double or triple kill can seal it. When self-placement is used in an 8v8 worm game, there is a boring process of worm-placement, which can become a piling contest, or a putting-worms-in-inaccessible-places constest. The removal of the early easy or fairly-easy kills/moves means the round gets off to a slow start, and runs the risk of turning into a shotgun battle. Here's a strong closing statement from me: If I were 2-0 down in the CWT final, and my opponent was going first in the next round, I would be happy to continue playing with random placement.
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Johnmir
Member
Karate Kid
Love normal!:D
Posts: 273
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Post by Johnmir on Jun 23, 2005 6:15:22 GMT
Haha, people-wormers is not equal to people-worms but it was very funny remark ;D Ty for answers, i understood your position and waiting for other answers.
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Crespo
Member
CWT founder
Posts: 758
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Post by Crespo on Jun 23, 2005 11:59:52 GMT
1. Only in extreme cases. I usually type something like "shit". 2. No. Usually it's the unlucky one that first opens his mouth. 3. Same as question 1. 4. I usually say the same things to everyone. 5. I share the Penguins opinion on this because I just love playing in a disadvantage situation and making comebacks. 6. In extreme cases yes because it actually was important for the game. 7. Same as Penguin. 8. For those of you who think highly of theis little matter here's my personal CWT 2005 experience: I sincerely do believe I won most rounds this year playing second turn in the beginning of the rounds. I haven't counted the rounds but I know that the majority of them happenned this way. I usually had the feeling "Good, I'm playing first now." and then lost the round and vice-versa. 9. Not really. Perhaps if that happenned in an official CWT playoff game I would get some kind of remorse but nah, it never hapenned cuz' the probability of that hapenning to each wormer is the same. 10. I trust in my brains firstly. If I make too much mistakes I will be depending on the oponnent. Positions don't matter except in extreme cases of unlucky spotting.
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Post by MrTPenguin on Jun 26, 2005 16:11:09 GMT
Here's one to talk about: surrendering. I myself would never surrender in a CWT game, but in friendlies I will, if I don't think that I can win.
I've read in a chess book that it's an insult to your opponent to continue playing if you've effectively already lost, because you're basically playing in the belief that he will make mistakes, which is insulting to him.
Lots of wormers (particularly Bytor, who says "death before dishonour" on this subject) think that surrendering is an act of cowardice and defeatism.
What do you lot think?
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fury
Member
Ninja Furries
Posts: 347
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Post by fury on Jun 27, 2005 0:15:50 GMT
1. Not always. If it's a friendly and I just want to have fun, I just don't care that much. Otherwise, I speak about it more or less depending on the wormer I'm facing. 2. Yes, when I like and respect the wormer (except in an official game). Otherwise I just shut up and play. 3. I usually say it at the start of the round. 4. Yep, depends on the wormer. 5. I just try, with a bad mood. In an official game I try to concentrate a lot to keep up. 6. Of course... you can't reject the idea that it plays a major role in the outcome. 7. I feel sorry if I agree with him (especially if it's official). But sometimes these weren't THAT bad positions => You also have to compare with the other team's positions to judge. 8. I'm rather afraid of the next positions when it's 2-2. 9. I feel sorry and not proud when I win cause of that, and I say to myself that anyway it could also have happened to me. It's the game. 10. ?
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fury
Member
Ninja Furries
Posts: 347
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Post by fury on Jun 27, 2005 0:22:17 GMT
Here's one to talk about: surrendering. I myself would never surrender in a CWT game, but in friendlies I will, if I don't think that I can win. I've read in a chess book that it's an insult to your opponent to continue playing if you've effectively already lost, because you're basically playing in the belief that he will make mistakes, which is insulting to him. Lots of wormers (particularly Bytor, who says "death before dishonour" on this subject) think that surrendering is an act of cowardice and defeatism. What do you lot think? In officials I'll try as much as I can. In friendlies, except when it's really to have some fun (ie. not training), I tend to surrender easily. It just means to me "ok, you won." because I see the situation is desperate. Often I do this when I don't have much spare time and I just don't want to waste all my training time as a darksider. And I don't see the not-surrendering case as an insult, just a dare : "will your emotions resist to my calm?".
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Johnmir
Member
Karate Kid
Love normal!:D
Posts: 273
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Post by Johnmir on Jun 28, 2005 7:03:00 GMT
About surrending:
There are some sides of this problem. I reraly surrend but i can do it in a friendly round where i lost all the ropes in 2 turns or something like that cause game becomes boring cause of my really stupid playing in 2 first turns. +Every player has not very good days of playing, when he missed a lot, especially with taktics, and when i see that i'm get myself to the taktical corner (inluding losing ropes or just i dunno what to do next turn) i can surrend without any bad emotions, just to calm down and try to play new round. Another side of the problem is your opponent's feelings. Every player want to win a game, i mean that every player is pleased to win a game. When you surrender your opponent won't take this nice feelings after win. It is very bad cause when player wins he becomes self-confident. If you surrend he don't feel himself as a real winner. That is why when i surrend i'm triing to say sorry and to explain my reasons to the opponent. I think everyone should explain your behavior in such moments.
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Johnmir
Member
Karate Kid
Love normal!:D
Posts: 273
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Post by Johnmir on Jun 28, 2005 7:18:21 GMT
Thank you for answers guys (if someone else want to answer, do it too). What do you think: may be bad positions is rather psihologycal thing? are you sure that your bad positions helps to your opponent a lot? I have noticed one thing : if you had a dangerous positions and you was succeded in solving with problem (by killing the same number of opponent's worms) your opponent starts to miss. He starts to lose concentration. When i play with guys very often i hear things like: 'i had bad positions'. But if i lost only 3-4 worms during the round - was it so bad positions or just my opponent was bad? Good players can see if they won cause of positions or not so i think noone need to say about positions it is obvious thing saying about which doesn't help you to be respected in this round. For example: i played with Fantomas many games and there wasn't any moment when this man said to me 'i had bad positions' just cause of he played to the end all the times and after a round he needn't to explain to me why he lost inspite of very good playing. (I mean games which Fantomas lost to me, last time he beat me 2:0 ;D)
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Post by samuel on Jul 30, 2005 10:03:58 GMT
1. Do you say about your unlucky positions always when you think so?
Only rarely; I sometimes mention it jokingly, but I wouldn't say "it's because I had bad positions" if I lost.
2. Do you say about opponent's unlucky positions sometimes when you think so?
Not really; maybe in some rare cases.
3. Do you prefer to keep silence about your unlucky positions or you would like to say it immediatly.
I'd prefer to keep silence.
4. Can you say about your unlucky positions to each player or not to each? (example : I can't say about unlucky positions to Bytor cause he never says it himself).
I tend to treat my opponents in the same way until I know enough about their personality to comment on such things.
5. How important positions in a round for you and your playing in this round.
Not very; sometimes I find having bad positions motivates me to play better. ^^
6. Is saying or thinking about bad positions helps you to find a little reason of losing to your opponent?
I suppose in a way it does, but I don't think it makes too much of a difference; if you're a good wormer, you'd be able to compensate in other parts of the game.
7. What emotions do you receive when opponent says to you ‘I had unlucky positions’ : something unpleasant or you feel sorry?
I suppose, if they're serious, I wouldn't be so understanding. What would the point in mentioning it to me be? I didn't choose the positions.
8. Situation : you have played first round in your game and it was your first turn ( official game for example). Are you afraid of your next round’s positions?
Nope; as I said, a good wormer would be able to compensate in other parts of the game.
9. Do you feel sorry after winning ‘cause of’ bad positions of your opponent, or sometimes yes and sometimes no?
It depends on how bad their positions were.
10. After analyzing your own answers try to say : what do you think after your game about first of all: your playing, his and your positions, opponents playing?
Sorry, I don't quite understand that question. ^^:
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Jigsaw
Member
Inevitability
Posts: 643
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Post by Jigsaw on Jul 31, 2005 20:09:42 GMT
1. Do you say about your unlucky positions always when you think so? No, what for? If someone told me that he/she ( ) has bad positions I'd just ask 'what you want me to do about it?' 2. Do you say about opponent's unlucky positions sometimes when you think so? Nah, I believe my opponents are smart enough to notice such things by themselves 3. Do you prefer to keep silence about your unlucky positions or you would like to say it immediatly. silence, same as answer no. 1 4. Can you say about your unlucky positions to each player or not to each? (example : I can't say about unlucky positions to Bytor cause he never says it himself). makes no difference, I never say it 5. How important positions in a round for you and your playing in this round. I used to pick good maps where both players had equal chances ...more or less 6. Is saying or thinking about bad positions helps you to find a little reason of losing to your opponent? huh, losing? 7. What emotions do you receive when opponent says to you ‘I had unlucky positions’ : something unpleasant or you feel sorry? depends on who's saying it and in what manner, if he tries to blame me for that I take it as an attepmt to distract me and ignore 8. Situation : you have played first round in your game and it was your first turn ( official game for example). Are you afraid of your next round’s positions? not more than my opponents 9. Do you feel sorry after winning ‘cause of’ bad positions of your opponent, or sometimes yes and sometimes no? knowing that it is possible even after having bad positions I dont feel sorry (merciless, huh;)) 10. After analyzing your own answers try to say : what do you think after your game about first of all: your playing, his and your positions, opponents playing? I think of things I did nicely, some good tricks good thing this thread has been revived, I wanted to speak here but forgot
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Post by Bytor on Aug 1, 2005 5:04:54 GMT
MrT I am surprised, U got it back-wards M8. how Manny time have we played? I do live by "death before dishonor" This means I DO kill my last worm in a lost cause game rather then dark-side and drag out a game for a slim chance at victory. It also applies to my never using crates policy. There is nothing wrong with admitting a defeat and moving on. In my opinion if I am faced with a choice between loosing or dark-siding and dragging a game out, I have already failed and chose death ether by my hand or my opponents.
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Post by MrTPenguin on Aug 1, 2005 10:08:47 GMT
Ah yes, sorry Big B - I got it wrong.
But it's still true that there are wormers who will never surrender, even though it's a obviously a good idea to, particularly in friendlies.
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Post by khamski on Aug 1, 2005 11:52:36 GMT
1-4, 6-8 I don't like to express my feelings about positions 9. Do you feel sorry after winning ‘cause of’ bad positions of your opponent, or sometimes yes and sometimes no? Wining is a hard thing to do... so if i got lucky i take it as a reward for my efforts Feel sorry for my opponent? It is the last thing i do... You get weak when you do that and he just grabs the win and go away smiling 5. How important positions in a round for you and your playing in this round. If i have vbl positions and my opponent's worms are set ok (no potential piles... very few or none on the edge) (lets call it VBS- very bad sitting) than YES i can consider sitting as a deciding factor in my loose 10. After analyzing your own answers try to say : what do you think after your game about first of all: your playing, his and your positions, opponents playing? if vbs: positions my playing opp playing if no vbs: my playing opp playing positions if i played vs very tough opponent playing his best opp playing my playing positions if i played vs very tough opponent playing his best plus vbs i just feel miserable On surrendering issue: i just never give up why? because i dont see a reason to do that if its really imp to do anything then my opponent will finish the game next turn so why hurry? but i don't really mind if my opponent gives up it is such an ego boost to see him raising white flag admitting my superiority
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Post by MasterTool on Aug 1, 2005 13:21:58 GMT
Khamski: I myself rather slay my opponents last worm than to see him raising the flag, this happens a lot with not-so-skilled wormers (and it might get frustrating). When I smash his army I feel much better than when he runs away from the battle field . In the another hand, when the game is getting really frustrating I can understand those who want to move on to the next round, I also do this sometimes as I like lightsider games. Sometimes active darksiding is also very enjoyable, but when it goes ugly and I am the onlyone who tries to put on fair fight it's not so enjoyable anymore.
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