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Post by Mielu on Dec 29, 2005 0:19:59 GMT
[...] real disconnections as a random factor, they are as destructive for one player as if someone take and use a nice crate (ropes, banana, etc). So if disconnections are something bad i think that crates with they power to make equal disaster to a game, they should be forbiden. I think there's an essential difference between disconnections and crates: crates are an integral part of the game (of the 'game world', if you like), whereas disconnections are an unfortunate effect of technical limitations in the implementation (outside of the 'game world'). In this respect, I see disconnections and game quirks (bugs that result in 'interesting' behaviour) as part of the same category: we have to cope with them, but we shouldn't use them to win a game. On the other hand, I believe using crates should remain officially accepted - as I keep saying, we're not playing chess, we're playing worms.
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SirGorash
Member
yes i know, not your day...
Posts: 204
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Post by SirGorash on Dec 29, 2005 3:12:56 GMT
All u say is true, but these 2 things called crates and crashes, both affect the game result in similar way and this is my point. Seems that u like the random factor on the game, not me sry. I like victories but in equal conditions, as well as i dont wanna see my championship game go to hell because some fucking random calculations managed to drop a crate with banana bomb beside your worm just before your turn starts (for example . Both things are "bad" because of how they change the normal course of a game/match, so both things should be considered with the same rigurosity. We talk about disconnections because we cant be 100% sure about them, we dont know if ppl disconnect on purpose or that was "inevitable" network problem. If we could have the certainty about what happened on every disconnection then disconnections will not be a problem: the quitter lose and if crash was a network problem then replay and all happy. We talk about crates because some likes random factor and some do not, i think that the best way to solve this is making a poll and officially decide what shall be done with crates for CWT 2006. PS: hope i explain myself about crates and crashes feelings ^^ "different world problems that affect the game with similar results".
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Jigsaw
Member
Inevitability
Posts: 643
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Post by Jigsaw on Dec 29, 2005 8:54:58 GMT
All u say is true, but these 2 things called crates and crashes, both affect the game result in similar way and this is my point. Seems that u like the random factor on the game, not me sry. I like victories but in equal conditions, as well as i dont wanna see my championship game go to hell because some fucking random calculations managed to drop a crate with banana bomb beside your worm just before your turn starts might want to use manual placement, and do something with wind since those two things are random as well? Seriously, the final as well as other playoff games are played bo5 for a reason. One banana means nothing in such a game, even in such a round when you have 8 worms. So if I had to recall, I'm sure most of my games which went bad, were because of placement or my own mistakes, rarely because of crates (in fact I can't remember if I ever lost because of them)
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Post by Saldanha on Dec 29, 2005 11:33:50 GMT
I use the crates too, sometimes I will be lucky and sometimes I wont. I think like mielu, we are playing worms. In my game with mielu in cwt 2005 I were lucky with the crates but he was lucky because of my worms positions. It was a strange game but he won because he is better I think
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Post by MrTPenguin on Dec 29, 2005 17:02:39 GMT
I agree with mielu and Jigsaw - crates are part of the game, and disconnections are not.
Me and Crespo are in agreement that disconnections are the hardest thing to legislate for in a tournament. I don't think there's a perfect solution, and that all we can do is make the most of it. One thing I'd advice people to do is arrange for a third person to watch their games if they think they might d/c. This third person could then play a vital role is helping to decide what to do for the re-start.
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Post by GeneralHorn on Dec 30, 2005 17:50:03 GMT
All u say is true, but these 2 things called crates and crashes, both affect the game result in similar way and this is my point. Seems that u like the random factor on the game, not me sry. I like victories but in equal conditions, as well as i dont wanna see my championship game go to hell because some fucking random calculations managed to drop a crate with banana bomb beside your worm just before your turn starts (for example . Both things are "bad" because of how they change the normal course of a game/match, so both things should be considered with the same rigurosity. We talk about disconnections because we cant be 100% sure about them, we dont know if ppl disconnect on purpose or that was "inevitable" network problem. If we could have the certainty about what happened on every disconnection then disconnections will not be a problem: the quitter lose and if crash was a network problem then replay and all happy. We talk about crates because some likes random factor and some do not, i think that the best way to solve this is making a poll and officially decide what shall be done with crates for CWT 2006. PS: hope i explain myself about crates and crashes feelings ^^ "different world problems that affect the game with similar results". Hey guys! I am very suprised that here is said something like disconnections and crates are equal....or the same stuff, in my opinion really not...It would decrease the fun of worms to disallow using them....fair games are really nice, but crates are not unfair, they are truly wanted from the game designer... I wish you all a nice new years eve! C U next year! Greets, Horn.
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Post by khamski on Dec 30, 2005 23:05:31 GMT
I can't describe how i feel when somebody wins me over using lucky crate... bad bad feeling BUT There is a truth in worms ... real TRUTH ... sometimes you lose sometimes you win...
So crates are ok Crashes are not ok
Only cure versus crashes are good spectators
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SirGorash
Member
yes i know, not your day...
Posts: 204
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Post by SirGorash on Jan 1, 2006 16:06:36 GMT
General, u missunderstood all i wrote. I said that both crates and crashes affect the game result in similar way, this is different to say crates are equal to crashes. Hope u get the idea, some love crates and some do not. U probably know that some crates kill the tactics of Normal games, and the big tactics needed is what makes Normal different from rope based games.
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Post by GeneralHorn on Jan 2, 2006 1:06:57 GMT
General, u missunderstood all i wrote. I said that both crates and crashes affect the game result in similar way, this is different to say crates are equal to crashes. Hope u get the idea, some love crates and some do not. U probably know that some crates kill the tactics of Normal games, and the big tactics needed is what makes Normal different from rope based games. Hey! No, I didnt missunderstood. I get your meassage, but my word "equal" was a bit wrong used, I agree. English isnt my native, so sorrry. .Of course I know about destroying tactics by crates....but in my opinion, it is part of Worms and ok... Greets, Horn.
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Post by Dario on Jan 2, 2006 18:26:15 GMT
I know, creates are part of the game, and if we get to ban all the random things we would end up playing chess. But i stil hate 2x , bananas and miniguns. About disconections: I think we all agree that watchers are the best solution, the problem is how to regulate them. Shoudl every match have a watcher? should CWT have an official watchers team selected by the whole community because of their fairness and not biased opinion? and then how to solve each different situation, because guessing a possible round result is very hard as we all know. Not only the amount of energy a team has left but the amount of worms, how much life left of each worm, how many utilities/weapons left, placement considering the overall terrain, how long to suden death. It's a really complicated issue.... if there was a way to restore a round.... call T17!!!!!!!!
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Post by khamski on Jan 2, 2006 20:50:10 GMT
Nah... It can be restored roughly Anyway its better then start from scratch again
But the best of all would be...
A record Watcher rewinds the game... watches it from the beginin to the moment of disconnection and defines game values for the restart
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Jigsaw
Member
Inevitability
Posts: 643
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Post by Jigsaw on Jan 2, 2006 22:11:04 GMT
I really cant see how a spectator would help to solve problem of crashes, personally I like to leave it to my opponents good will (as in, "big deal I'll just beat you again") ;P
also notcie that its difficult enough to get 2 players to play at the same time, and now there will have to be 3
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Post by khamski on Jan 3, 2006 9:40:06 GMT
Well i described how it can be perfectly done if watcher records the game If not... He is still a neutral side So he can decide the restarting situation
Yes it can be a little pain to find few active members for that But if it become a tradition we will say goodbye to this disconnection issue
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