I've thought of a couple of things recently, and here they are:
1. Some people are reluctant to use "hardcore" weapons that they get in crates in normal games, due to (misguided?) considerations of honour and sportsmanship. It's worth pointing out that anything can be used in a CWT game, including Donkeys and Armageddons. I know that Crespo is waiting to hear about the first Donkey in CWT
2. This is an interesting one: what should happen if someone accidentally surrenders during a round (eg, when trying to use a select)? Should it be treated like a d/c, and the d/c rules be applied, or should it be taken as a victory for the other player? I know it's not likely to happen, but it's a good idea to prepare for every eventuality.
3. What actually happens when someone breaks one of the less important rules, like doing some cheatwalking. Or even something a bit bigger, like killing a worm with a girder? If someone cheatwalked for 5 secs, should they forfeit the game? And if someone does a girder kill, should they only get a proverbial "slap on the wrist"? At the moment, we've got a rather lax "common sense" system - are things okay as they are?
i think the grider kill is well harsh. Also getting on the roof isnt too hard with a carvern map to get ur worm on the edge then jet pack up when another stands on his head. Although they can be homing off or something but still shouldnt be allowed i guess. Although i think the roof issue isnt as bad as cheat walking or grider kill, cus its an interesting place to hide.
ad 1. yes penguin, I've heard about it just yesterday and in my opinion that's just as stupid as disapproval of darksiding, next they'll stop using ropes because it's to easy to move around lol, funny situation from yesterdays game with goku my 3 worms vs 1 of his, he was far away from me and I only had one jet pack with not chutes, blue crate appeared and I could reach it, it was a crate spy, showed me that in one of the crates there are ropes, I went there on jet then with 3 ropes reached his worm, fun:)
ad 2. you shouldn't even mention that, people might try to surrender accidentaly-on-purpouse if they find themselves in difficult situation. It's is not likely to happen that someone uses f12 in intermediate (or am I wrong?), I never do just because of accidental surrender, plus only usual thing in intermediate locked under f12 button is select worm which doesn't require a hurry and can be selected from weapon menu, other things are freeze and patsy magic bullet, I've never seen any of them in intermediate. Yet when soemthing like this happens I think it should be up to the other player's good will, d/c is a bad luck when someone surrenders it's just carelessness
ad 3 I don't think killing with girder is easy enough to be worth using in cwt game, as for cheatwalking and hiding on top of the map it is clearly forbidden in cwt rules, it is players' obligation to read and respect them, cheatwalking is forbidden, when someone tries to use it for his advantage it is cheating, if it was up to me cheaters would go (same with girder killers), there would be some use for a cow label:P
And i agree with chicken, I dont think hiding on top would be useful, to go there you need to waste two turns, then you dont atack with the worm on top, that gives you opponent advantage to kill all the worms inside the map, then just have to wait for sd when hidden worm health goes down to 1 and then kill, not necessarily with a homing
an optimist sees 50hp worm as half alive, a pessimist sees it as half dead
1st - yeah Jig's right on that. If they won't us'em, well I think the oponnent should thank on that. Parody (upcoming CWT rule: whenever you get a secret weapon and won't use it because it's unfair then your oponnent MUST say thanks otherwise the round is yours) ;D
2nd - Again our champion shares the same point than I: it s carelessness and if you surrender then you lost the game.
3rd - Hey Jigsaw read my thoughts again: if used (the cheat techniques mentioned) then the cow will have it's destination and if too much used well I guess I can arrange some kind of score penalty...
Science may not be everything but it is undoubtedly the best thing Mankind has for understanding the Universe.
It's in the same category as all other accidental hot-key moves. If, for example, you dropped your dynamite when you wanted to do an fp, then you have to live with the consequences - you can't restart the round! I believe that in the event of an accidental surrender, the "winner" of the round should have the right to say: "I won that round", as his opponent lost due to his own bl. Realistically, if someone does it in one of their first few turns, then I'd expect the "winner" to be nice and let the round be re-started. If, on the other hand, someone does it in the middle or late stages of the round, then the "winner" would be wise to take the easy victory
And as for petty cheating:
If someone does a bit of cheat-walking in a turn where it doesn't serve any purpose (ie, messing about or doing in 20s what would otherwise take 25s, for example) then there's no point doing anything, other than frowning. If, however, cheat walking is used to make possible something which was otherwise either very difficult or impossible, then the cow label comes into effect. The fate of the cow lies in the hands of Crespo.
As for girder kills (which I can't do ), if the worm could've been killed using a weapon of unlimited stock (like the zook or the shotgun), then it doesn't matter. If a high-health and/or hidden worm is killed like this, then the cow label comes into effect.
A pattern is emerging here: if an illegal move is performed which doesn't give the cheat an unfair advantage, then it's tolerable. If it enables the cheat to do something he shouldn't be able to do, then it's cheating per se, and should be punished.
Can’t ignore this discussion, guys. My opinion is : if you are really pro wormer and really can beat your less skilled opponent I think you shouldn’t use luck (crates) against him. But if you are not as good as your opponent you shouldn’t compensate lack of your skill by crates. Additionally only pros are in this tournament and such behavior isn’t a level of CWT players. As for me I don’t use any crates from shute and bungee up to bananas. And I won’t respect a wormer who could use Donkey or Armaggedon in the official game. Actually I think using crates shouldn’t be banned cause it’s a matter of honour for every player to decide whether to use or not to use lucky crates.
Realistically, if someone does it in one of their first few turns, then I'd expect the "winner" to be nice and let the round be re-started.
beginning of a round, I notice that my opponent's worms are well placed and seems like only two are killable with one move, on the other hand my worms are placed poorly and easy to pile, hmm... ooops! I accidentally surrendered dude, admin expects you to be nice and let the round be restarted you know, obey! muahaha! and welcome to twilight zone!
just noticed what johmir wrote hence the edit: well, you wont respect me then, I'm bad bad darksider, and would use donkey if I only got one
For me if you get really powerfull crate, there should not be the restriction to use it, off course someone will think that I am like to win easily and don't respect the opponent, but I don't really much care of it. If you got luck why you should not use it in your favour?
So, If it will happen to me when the opponent throw the Donkey on me in official game I just say: It is a game, just a game and will not think anyting bad about the opponent
Very powerful and mass destructive weapons is just part of the luck factor which as I think inherent to almost all games, you just need to take it as it is.
The thing which I really hate is the fact that sometimes wormers quit on purpose to avoid losing the game and label this quiting as accidential disconection and BL. Luckily I have not encountered such nasty behaviour last year in CWT, but it could be in the future (hopefully very very rare or never) and off couse it is not that easy to prove that it was not just disconnection it was quiting on purpose. I think we need to think about it more profound and maybe to do something
Jigsaw - good point. We could have a rule whereby if someone surrenders and the other player decides the round should be restarted, the other player should go first (ie, the "surrender monkey" should skip his first turn if he's first). This partially solves the problem. Remember the other part of my idea where if you think that your opponent has deliberately surrendered, then you can take the round
Johnmir - I see where you're coming from. Remember that super weapons don't come along very often, and also that luck is a factor in normal games whether we like it or not. I think that if we turned off crate drops and had 8v8-worm self-placement games, then we'd get a tournament of boring shotgun-battles.
When we are playing with Bytor he never use boxes and it's very interesting to watch and play so i don't think that it is boring not to use crates. You can do vn turns without crates.
But indeed, this isn't chess we are playing. As in many games, luck is involved in a lot of places, not only crates. This is the beauty of the intermediate scheme.
Edit: And I disagree with our dear flightless one, a round without crates can be exactly as fun.
I think crates are fun, you get to use some other weapons than usual intermediate stuff, it makes the game more interesting. Sure it is annoying when opponent gets 2* and kills 4 worms with hhg but hey, in the tourney it is played best of 5
No crates games definitely are boring; at least it gives me the impression of an incomplete game, if you get my drift. And what if you jump onto a double damage crate? you can't use it because it's unfair? So what? you will skip your turn? We would get to play the tournament games using the same moves all over every single game... I'll add some comments to the literal words you used back here:
".... But if you are not as good as your opponent you shouldn’t compensate lack of your skill by crates. The players rank isn't a literall thing, and every game has a different story so a player doesn't actually have to be aware that he is better or worse than the oponnent. A player in my tournament just wants to play and to win the game within the established rules. Additionally only pros are in this tournament and such behavior isn’t a level of CWT players. Using crates is not at the level of CWT'ers? Well lots of CWTers might consider this offensive, I do! As for me I don’t use any crates from shute and bungee up to bananas. Too bad for you. And I won’t respect a wormer who could use Donkey or Armaggedon in the official game. In 3 years of CWT never a Donkey or Armageddon was reported, perhaps a mail strike or something not so overwhelming but as you see 3 years went on and nothing of your no respect weapons..."
Science may not be everything but it is undoubtedly the best thing Mankind has for understanding the Universe.
Lots of interesting and good points made here. I use all the F keys and F12, yes I make mistakes, and sometimes surrender, it is my fault and I must pay the price, I loose the round Hey that's the game.
Same about crates, sometimes your lucky, sometimes your not and even waste a turn just getting a crate you can't use. that's what makes this game so much fun. You never know who's going to win until the fat lady sings :-)
We had a long discussion a couple of years back about manual placement of worms, I admit I was for it because it seem that random placement took out the skill element. But as Jig & Pengi said who wants a shot gun game (boring). We've got a good set of rules worked out now, I say we stick to the rules as layed out by Crespo and play without cheating, that's the hounourable thing to do.
There are 2 rules to comedy, 1. always leave them wanting more :-)
Deleted: I made some forum modifications. Tell me what you like and dislike. I opened aswell the new tournament board. Now all we need are engaged moderators and a community :-)
Mar 10, 2013 14:51:16 GMT
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Deleted: It's a while that I did the update.
Feb 27, 2013 17:54:41 GMT
Zemke: Whoops, ProBoards seems to ahve updated their forums.
Feb 26, 2013 19:55:35 GMT