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Post by Zemke on Mar 24, 2012 20:30:38 GMT
CWT 2012 playoff attendees will be paired under the following restrictions: - Players of the same group will not clash.
- Players who finished their group on first place will always play against players who finished second.
- At the beginning of the tournament all players will be subjectively divided into pots A to D with descending strength. In the playoff stage stronger players will always meet as late as possible considering the pots assignment.
Given these three restrictions the playoff pairings are aimed to maintain the seriousness this tournament has due to its money prize, but still offering a bit of randomness in order to not make it predictable. The pots will be subjectively assigned by several well-known players who are thought to be having a good idea of how good players are. |
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Post by khamski on Mar 25, 2012 9:16:38 GMT
Cool.
Except:
First restriction is wrong. It is not a problem if groupmates meet in the PO.
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Post by Zemke on Mar 25, 2012 12:15:08 GMT
Sure it isn't a problem, but it's more interesting if we got a wider range of opponents.
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Post by Koras on Mar 26, 2012 20:59:49 GMT
good, what about last year problem?
when 3 top players played at one half of tree?
still random
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2012 21:26:24 GMT
Koras wrote in CWT shoutbox:
anyway I wondering how U gonna decide who is in "top 2". U said Mablak and Dario while i think its Kayz and one of them:)
Now you can suddenly define TOP3 players? On which base?
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Post by Kayz on Mar 27, 2012 17:40:13 GMT
Changed first restriction, it's removed. Since I will draw the pots manually, still using the subjective ranking, we can't avoid that maybe some players meet their group mates in 1st stage. We still have much randomness now, but fairness, so that Top 3 will be in one branch is simply not possible! The idea is following: I will draw every half of the branch separately, with using the ONL Playoff system, that the players with the rank 1,4,5,8 and 2,3,6,7 are in one branch each. In this case you can't know in which branch you will be before the playoff stage to avoid manipulations (since you don't know which rank you are). So it doesn't matter how you play in the group phase, it won't change the playoff tree setting, except for the fact which names will be there  |
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Post by khamski on Mar 28, 2012 12:50:58 GMT
>"Changed first restriction, it's removed. Since I will draw the pots manually,
> still using the subjective ranking, we can't avoid that maybe some players meet their group mates in 1st stage."
exactly
> "So it doesn't matter how you play in the group phase, it won't change the playoff tree setting, except for the fact which names will be there"
You mean subjective rating won't change but 1st vs second will stay, right?
Means those Experts wont re-rate players after group games.
Agree there.
Experts will become active players on that phase and their decision may be biased.
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Post by Zolo-du on Mar 28, 2012 18:06:20 GMT
Hi all  Let me know when it will register  ,I want play  |
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Post by Koras on Mar 28, 2012 18:47:09 GMT
Koras wrote in CWT shoutbox: anyway I wondering how U gonna decide who is in "top 2". U said Mablak and Dario while i think its Kayz and one of them:)Now you can suddenly define TOP3 players? On which base? roftl ;D its so obvious... |
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Post by Zemke on Mar 28, 2012 20:33:55 GMT
October 1, Zolo-du.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 21:56:22 GMT
I wouldn't accept a CWT ranking according to ONL merits, Koras.
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Post by Kayz on Mar 28, 2012 22:28:43 GMT
OK I have a question to all you CWT future participants, Zemke Joschi and me discussed so long now.
And we still didn't find a solution how to solve the problem, that maybe player 1,2,3,4 of the subjective ranking is in one branch, so it could happen, actually, when we only say, that the first of a group plays vs a second of another group.
So we can have the 1234 in one branch and 5678 in the other.
As Dario said in CWT 2011 forum: Getting into final without facing any former CWT finalist is just luck then and not earned.
That's obviously NOT fair!!!
A fair sum would be 1458 in one branch and 2367 in the other branch, so we just check the pairs after the group phase, compare the people with the subjective ranking and sort them like this, randomly of course in the branches.
But we also agreed that it's not our job to decide this, we want that everyone is happy with the tournament, we want to see OPINIONS, and not only people who complain after the tournament is over!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 6:06:53 GMT
And we still didn't find a solution how to solve the problem, that maybe player 1,2,3,4 of the subjective ranking is in one branch, so it could happen, actually, when we only say, that the first of a group plays vs a second of another group. Actually my proposition avoides 1,2,3,4 on one branch. |
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Post by Kayz on Mar 29, 2012 9:08:32 GMT
I know but Zemke disagreed with using any ranking of the group seeding for the playoff branches. That includes your proposition too ...
And 1345 vs 2678 is still unfair
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Post by khamski on Mar 29, 2012 12:28:57 GMT
Okay, lets make an overview.
1.
Sign up starts.
2.
32 places are filled.
3.
Three Experts create a subjective rating for those 32 players.
4.
Players are seeded into 4 pots considering their rating.
5.
Draw starts. Groups are made.
6.
Groups stage ends.
We have 8 players who won a 1st place.
We have another 8 players who won a 2nd place.
7.
1st part of a draw starts. Only one restriction is there: "1st meets 2nd"
8.
1st part of a draw ends. We have 8 pairs.
9.
2nd part of a draw starts.
We have to put those pairs in the right branches according to the 1st place players ratings.
I repeat FIRST PLACE PLAYERS ratings.
Second placed players subjective rating is not taken into account.
So pairs are placed into branches according the rating of a 1st placed players.
Simple procedure. 1st goes one branch, 2nd goes other branch, 3rd goes one branch, 4th goes other branch and so on.
10.
we have fair knockout pairs and fair tournament tree.
ta fucking da.
p.s. Oh shit.. You have a bug in the head post. It's not as bad as that slash bug but still bad. Remove that 1st restriction.
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,I want play 