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Post by Dario on Jan 3, 2007 19:53:13 GMT
Oh, well about that "shit", it will be very hard to make me change my mind about that. I used to think that "shit" was shit in fact, but after a lot of games vs many good players I started to see the beauty of it:
Random placement with 8 worms and 3 worm selects give inter that "thing" no other scheme has. You must think very quickly during your first turn, check your worms order, check enemy's worms order (if u know it), find good places to hide, plan where to attack and where to hide and think, see which are the best moves for the first turns.
But not only during the first turns, you also need to see which worms are easier to be killed and plann your moves so that those who are safer will have their turn after those that are endangered. Also, many times, a worm that has been randomly placed might seem to be safe, but a pro eye may see a great move to kill it.
I believe that random placement and worm selects, having 8 worms, makes you use a lot (LOT) more creativity and vision than teleport placement. Intermediate is beautiful and different, and despite I don't like some little things of it (crates, dud mines and clusters at WA :@), I still love it in the way it is and I would refuse to do any major changes to it.
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Post by Bytor on Jan 4, 2007 19:54:21 GMT
HERE. HERE,
I could not have said it better myself Dario.
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Johnmir
Member
Karate Kid
Love normal!:D
Posts: 273
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Post by Johnmir on Jan 8, 2007 11:38:54 GMT
Hello, my friends!
I have read some opinions. Was interesting to hear.
About random placement. Cmon guys, time to stop this talking. I totally agree with Dario. If we want to remove random placement let's just play pro or elite cwt. Why we play intermediate then? Random placement gives us a lot of area for creativity! I can say for sure in situation where one man can do 3 frags, another man will do 4, it's all depends on a skill of a player!
About cluster. I would remove so strong cluster if it is possible. Well a lot of people think so as i can see, and i'm with them: it is really stupid when you can do a draw in any 1vs1 situation at the end of the game.
About clock. ;D Well Jigsaw and Daz you just think about this question different ways! No need to argue about that and talk about that. If we hadn't got any clock let's not have it. You know Jigsaw, i have the same opinion but everyone likes in game his own things. For example Daz and SirG like to count SD, we like to play intermediate, don't kill their interest to a game ;D.
About jet+bungee. For some time i used it very often, it is very usefull thing in some situations. But since it became not very "popular" i stopped to use it. Well, i really don't care about it that much, we can live without that, + it is used by only some guys, and it is really a question of taste.
About groups. Well, a lot of people really wanna play, less groups - less people can play. You know if we have 8 people more we will have 6 more guys who really wanna play and 2 people who may be really not active. Well of couse it is a problem for Crespo and MrTP i know, but i would take 6 interested guys even if i have to take 2 inactive more. (it is just my opinion! i repeat, i can say easily, but Crespo work with it and it is rather his personal decision then ours)
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Jigsaw
Member
Inevitability
Posts: 643
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Post by Jigsaw on Jan 9, 2007 19:27:00 GMT
I'm not trying to kill anybody's intered. I showed you the picture and proposed my solution. Its up to you all to decide, I can certainly adjust.
The only necessary change is reducing clusters' power, don't forget it also includes bananas!
Jet pack bungee? Couldn't care less, in fact, I don't even consider it to be a bug. Otherwise it would have been fixed with a patch.
Manual placement - boring, no
Remove crates - not completely by I'd surely agree to remove bananas and double damages (if you can edit utilities) especially because 2* is 'fixed' on wa, and empowered hhg destroys half of the map
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SirGorash
Member
yes i know, not your day...
Posts: 204
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Post by SirGorash on Jan 10, 2007 3:05:02 GMT
I disagree with you Jig, for me it doesnt matter if you killed your opponent with a holy and 2x damage you picked in crates or you kill your opponent with a picked mole bomb. It doesnt matter the crate you picked if its changing the result of the game it sucks the same.
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Jigsaw
Member
Inevitability
Posts: 643
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Post by Jigsaw on Jan 11, 2007 7:49:26 GMT
Ook, dont remove anything then. I want crates to stay for the same reason we want to keep random placement - FUN
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Crespo
Member
CWT founder
Posts: 758
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Post by Crespo on Jan 11, 2007 10:34:45 GMT
Well, I suppose we should have a poll voting for crates and cluster then... right?
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Post by Koras on Jan 11, 2007 12:09:53 GMT
yes its good idea
I disagree with U SirG:P....I have nothing againt my opponent when he use
3 mine,chute,bangue or other elementary weapon to kill me...but when he use Banana ,hhg or x 2 "damm it"^^
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SirGorash
Member
yes i know, not your day...
Posts: 204
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Post by SirGorash on Jan 11, 2007 16:50:53 GMT
Most of us want cluster/moktar power down, no poll needed i think. About crates, yes, hard to decide other way.
So Koras, if im not wrong, in an hypothetical car accident, you will hate to be killed by an old and rusty car but you will feel pleased to be killed by a brand new Limousine... The fact is you will be dead either way!, and, sometimes a simple mine would be more usefull than a holy bomb.
Well, for me, the most important thing in this game is TACTICS. You can plan your tactics cause you know wich items your opponent has, at the moment he picked a super sheep, homing missile, banana or even an small and insignificant chute! all your efforts will vanish. Its as bad as the super cluster suicide most of us want to remove. And about random places and crates comparisson, i would say random places give us the chance to do piles and multiple kills, thats the beauty of INTER above any other scheme or am i wrong? in this forum it was discussed many times that a game is not decided by the initial positions. I firmly believe in that now and i used to hate that random placement thing 1 or 2 years ago. And crates can turn a victory into ashes, in the moment your opponent picks the right crate you are dead, if you started with bad positions you always have a chance to change your tactics and still take the round. Both things gives fun to the game, crates and random places. But i would say crates kill your tactics while random places makes this scheme different from any other normal scheme and so i think that was a bad comparisson.
btw, why crates were removed from ELITE scheme?
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Jigsaw
Member
Inevitability
Posts: 643
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Post by Jigsaw on Jan 11, 2007 22:06:23 GMT
You really fail to see the difference between the mine and the hhg? hhg only matters because it take huge amount of damage, extra mine is nearly meaningless since stronger grenades and shotgun are unlimited.
Do not pretend you know why. Instead of asking 'why' you should ask 'who' and 'what was the result' The result was that the best (and the only) tactics became choosing SS as special weapon and hiding one worm somewhere high, waiting for SD if necessary. Dull? Many old players were really disappointed, although smart people are always the minority. Now, crates were removed by the FB league, which was a rather rotten community, when FB fell and better people created AL, they agreed to leave elite scheme as it is just to avoid any confusion. There, happy?
I like that part 'your efforts will vanish' Your problem is that you take this game too seriously. Taking down your opponent's worms order, counting time to sd, probably taking notes about everything your opponent uses? why else would you care about an extra chute? It doesnt kill your efforts, you just have to try harder, I've never had a problem with that.
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Post by Koras on Jan 12, 2007 9:14:38 GMT
So Koras, if im not wrong, in an hypothetical car accident, you will hate to be killed by an old and rusty car but you will feel pleased to be killed by a brand new Limousine... The fact is you will be dead either way!, and, sometimes a simple mine would be more usefull than a holy bomb. Yes right mate:P I just dont like super weapons from create, rest is ok^^for me.... BTW In my opinion small modification in schemme isnt bad...if they change Elite,T17(orginall t17 was play with worm select, now without) we should change Intermediate. |
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Post by Dario on Jan 12, 2007 12:24:31 GMT
I agree with SirgGorash on that a simple crate, even if it is a chute when you knew your enemy had no chutes left, and had put your worm somewhere unreachabe without a chute, can hurt you a LOT. As much as a 2x cows in the second turn.
But, the chances of a chute doing that much damage are way lower than the chances of 2x doing that kind of irreversible damage.
I vote for crates and dud mines to be removed, all of them.
If we can't reach an agreement on what to do about crates, maybe a balanced solution would be to remove utility crates (I don't know a way of removing 2x damage exclusively), bananas and superweapons. In this way the chance of a crate affecting too much the game will be reduced, but crate lovers will still have the chance of getting some quite nice crates (x3 ropes, and special weapons).
Anyway I still hate crates and I don't think I'll ever change my mind about that.
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Johnmir
Member
Karate Kid
Love normal!:D
Posts: 273
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Post by Johnmir on Jan 12, 2007 13:40:15 GMT
SirG, in this question i rather agree with Jigsaw again. I also didn't think about such things too but: There is actually a very big differance between nana and holy and some other weapons and such things like shute, bungee, mines... (i say this! i use mines as often as nobody else does!). Also i would delete ropes from crates. I'm really far from star thinking or thinking about great wins, great unbeatable attitude, but i still wanna say, if you have a disadvantage be proud of a winning your opponent even with his advantage and blame your self if you didn't win, it is a way i played all my life (was it cards or other sport games or worms), and i wish the same to each level players. (and i actually know, SirG, you were thinking this way too, if you have a hard opponents now, and you realize that crates can change a history of a game, you shouldn't change your mind, it was your spirit it must be the same through the time! + Some guys  don't use creats against you, but if someone use - use against them but! forbidding it must be just a change for making better, not to make fairer, this talking is not for you, elite player in inter friend). |
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SirGorash
Member
yes i know, not your day...
Posts: 204
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Post by SirGorash on Jan 12, 2007 14:52:50 GMT
You really fail to see the difference between the mine and the hhg? hhg only matters because it take huge amount of damage, extra mine is nearly meaningless since stronger grenades and shotgun are unlimited. So do you really use mine to inflict direct damage to your opponent or you use mine to make your opponents fly into water, holes, whatever?. Sometimes you wont kill a worm with holy but with mine, that was my point. Do not pretend you know why. Instead of asking 'why' you should ask 'who' and 'what was the result' The result was that the best (and the only) tactics became choosing SS as special weapon and hiding one worm somewhere high, waiting for SD if necessary. Dull? Many old players were really disappointed, although smart people are always the minority. Now, crates were removed by the FB league, which was a rather rotten community, when FB fell and better people created AL, they agreed to leave elite scheme as it is just to avoid any confusion. There, happy? About the why its obvious i wanted to point that some people had this very same discussion before and they agreed on removing crates. And I know that crates affects Elite more than Inter cause you play with less worms and less resources but anyway "their" decision shouldnt be ignored. PS: I've been playing online 2 years and i didnt know that "who". ...Your problem is that you take this game too seriously. Look, im the kind of person who thinks a victory is not a victory if it is not deserved, and by deserved i mean playing without clear advantage or God's/Team17 pseudorandom number generator's help. So winning or losing by crates is something i dislike, losing by crates is unfair and winning with crates is meaningless. You may say crates helps you today and kill you tomorrow and somehow that is compensated and all happy... I say NO damn, let the best game/round player win instead of luck decide for us. If i count opponent's ropes/jet/select worms/etc is because i want to think, to be able to predict his possible moves and do something about, TO THINK. Thats why we all play normal, we like the intelectual challenge in every game. Some will like to add some "random noise" -as TPen said- and some do not -like me-, but thats far from having a problem with this game as u said. So just different points of view... And last, I dont know how you managed to get 2 CWT gold medals if your style of playing is just do the best idea every turn without thinking in opponent's team order, without thinking in SD, without thinking in opponent items, without multiple turn tactics... its impossible you could have won CWT 2 times playing like that, so dont lie to me and dont lie to yourself, admit you do that kind of thinking and dont say i take it too serious if you do the same with the only difference that i take a piece of paper to help my memory. |
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Johnmir
Member
Karate Kid
Love normal!:D
Posts: 273
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Post by Johnmir on Jan 12, 2007 20:51:06 GMT
I have never had a list of paper, and have never knew an oeder of any my opponent  . Also i never knew how to count SD, i just did a little turns in the end of a game or did a long and after that blocked my opponents, that's all i know about it couse this questions is like hmmm, may be it is like counting matrix A (100*100) * matrix B (100*100) with your hands in stead of using a Maple (programm for maths counting). In my opinion it is rather work of a hands or something like that then something concerning our brains. BUT it is just my opinion i wanna stress i respect SirG's and Dario's opinion and can understand your interest in it, but i dislike it, and i still think it is not that thing which makes a game more interesting and well, just for me (JUST for me) it is not really interesting part of a game. |
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don't use creats against you, but if someone use - use against them but! forbidding it must be just a change for making better, not to make fairer, this talking is not for you, elite player in inter friend).
. Also i never knew how to count SD, i just did a little turns in the end of a game or did a long and after that blocked my opponents, that's all i know about it couse this questions is like hmmm, may be it is like counting matrix A (100*100) * matrix B (100*100) with your hands in stead of using a Maple (programm for maths counting). In my opinion it is rather work of a hands or something like that then something concerning our brains. BUT it is just my opinion i wanna stress i respect SirG's and Dario's opinion and can understand your interest in it, but i dislike it, and i still think it is not that thing which makes a game more interesting and well, just for me (JUST for me) it is not really interesting part of a game.